tv Fareed Zakaria GPS CNN September 26, 2010 1:00pm-2:00pm EDT
dr. summers overseas the coordination of economic policy making across the administration. we are certain that dr. summers did not do his white house job from overseas, nor did he advise on the overseas economy. we are pretty sure he o-v-e-r-s-e-e-s the coordination of economic policy. bottom line, folks, say all you want about spell-check, there is no substitute for a good copy editor. thank you for watching "state of the union." i'm candy crowley in washington. for our international viewers, "world report" is next. for everyone else, "fareed zakaria gps" starts right now. this is gps, the global public square. welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria. it is the annual meeting of the united nations general assembly. the week any sane new yorkers would flee the city to get away from the gridlock of 192 motorcades swarming across the city as heads of state go from meeting to meeting.
the theatrics were familiar this year. there are the usual worthy but somewhat dull speeches by major heads of state, promising earnestly to end world poverty and bring peace to the middle east. there is the defiant performance by president mahmoud ahmadinejad of iran. there is the speech by u.n. officials urging everyone to take the u.n. very seriously. in the midst of all this, there was actually one genuine piece of drama, which underlines an important tension in international politics. the presidents of turkey and israel did not meet, despite some effort to do so. and their diplomatic relations remain at a standstill over the so-called flotilla incident. you recall what happened. on may 31s of this year, turkish ships sought to seek the siege of gaza by bringing them food and medicine and other supplies. the flotilla refused. israel did board the ships.
a scuffle broke out and nine activists were killed. eight of them turks and one american. . since then turkey has demanded that israel apologize and pay damages. israel has refused. now, this is more than a diplomatic spat. turkey is the only muslim country in the middle east to have had very good working ties with israel, incoming a strong military-to-military relationship. this association has been a force for stability in the middle east. as turkey has been able to be an intermediary for countries like syria and even with hamas. the relationship between the two countries rested in part on the turkish military. and as turkey has become more democratic, with its foreign policy is also reflecting popular sentiments more. on israel's side, the netanyahu government has managed its relations with turkey badly, with bruised feeling and rancor. it would be crucial to have these two countries, both democracies, both market economies, both growing, with
strong ties to the west, close relations with america, working together. were they to become rivals, it would add another element of instability to an already unstable region. on our show today, the two men whose differences kept them from meeting with each other here in new york. president shimon peres of israel and president an dualla guill of turkey. they will meet virtually on our show. i sat down with both of them to talk about their differences, to talk about the flotilla, and to find out what they might have said to each other had they met. we also talked about a lot of other things, of course. also on the show, what in the world is ahmadinejad claiming about the united states this time? you'll be surprised. we'll take a last look at this picture of peace talks in the united states, or is it? but first, the british sensation. a year ago, no one had heard of
nick clegg. now he's the second most powerful man in britain. a conversation with the deputy prime minister. let's get started. during britain's last parliamentary elections, they held an american-style presidential debate. the candidate who rocketed to stardom was nick clegg, the leader of the liberal democrats. 75% of brits wanted him to be the next prime minister. that faded, but nick clegg did end up the second most powerful person in britain, the deputy prime minister to david cameron, the leader of the torry party who was prime minister. this is the first coalition government britain has had since world war ii. we'll ask nick clegg how to make bipartisanship work and also about britain's some say brutal budget cuts. mr. deputy prime minister, thanks for joining us. >> it's great to be here. >> you as a liberal democrat are
now in coalition with a conservative government, and what strikes me, and i think what strikes most people as most unusual, is that you have been ferocious in your defense of these budget cuts that the government has put together. but there are lots of people who argue that what you're doing is actually politically, but economically dangerous, that is, at a time when there is no demand in the private sector, when companies are not spending, when people are not spending, the government is the spender of last resort. and by withdrawing money from the economy, by cutting, you know, salaries for schoolteachers, grants to student museums, local governments, you are actually going to send the economy into a second recession, or at the very least, make it even more fragile than it is. >> well, i think some of the debate has slightly caricatured what we're trying to do, as something which is going to happen brutally overnight. i think as people look at the details of our plans, they will actually see that this is going to be quite carefully spaced
five years. that even after we have made these big savings, we'll still be spending 700 billion pounds worth of taxpayers' money. that's more in cash terms than we are at the moment, still representing about 41% of national wealth. this isn't a massive contraction of the state. but yes, it is -- what it is, is trying to make sure that we don't spend much more as a country than we can afford. because our economy has shrunk. our economy has shrunk by around 6%. >> how did you get your party on board? there are people who tell me that, you know, you're popular, you're doing well in the coalition. there's only one small problem, which is that you don't vail from your party behind you. >> well, again, that there is a debate, in all political parties, is obvious. that this is a difficult and controversial thing to do is self-evidently the case. that people are anxious, i understand. i think it would be inhuman not to be anxious, given the fragility of the global economy. there are a lot of uncertainties about, and in an uncertain world, you've got to make a judgment about what you think is
the best way to navigate through those uncertainties. it is our judgment that dealing with this over a five-year period of time, getting it sorted, relieving the next generation of the burden of paying off our debts, money which frankly should be used for schools and hospitals, rather than that, paying off our debts, that that's the right judgment. i do need to argue that case with my own party, constantly? yes, of course you do. >> when you met with vice president biden, did you tell him that the united states should start serious deficit reduction? >> no, of course not. and i think it would be completely wrong for politicians to start, you know, finger-pointing, saying what we're doing works for other countries. and i think our circumstances are different. the british economy and the american economy, they have a lot of affinities, but they're not identical. we're a smaller economy, we're a very open economy. we're not part of a reserve currency, and it is our judgment that we couldn't bear the risk of continuing to carry this amount of deficit in the british economy over a prolonged period
of time. >> your bankers also held that they have been mistreat, that they're being beaten up, that they're now being overregulated by the cameron government, which is interesting, because it is a conservative government. these are similar things people say -- >> well, it's a coalition. >> well, a conservative-led government. so bankers are feeling unloved in britain as well? >> well, i don't think bankers are sort of top of the pops in terms of the popularity stakes anywhere at the moment. and i don't think it serves much purpose to sort of arbitrarily vilify anybody. but let's be honest. i can understand why folk who are having to face maybe a freeze in their pay, maybe adjustments in their pensions, particularly people who work in our schools and our hospitals, in our essential services, people who work, you know, long hours, doing very, very noble, great things in public service. i can understand why they are saying, why are we having to have a sacrifice when it wasn't our responsibility.
why aren't bankers taking their fair share of responsibility? that's why we imposed a levee on the banks, which will raise about 10 billion pounds over the next five years, which the previous government didn't. we've launched a review of the structure of banking, looking at the case of splitting up banking. with the benefit of hindsight, it was a spectacular failure of the regulators not to have spotted that, in effect, bankers were borrowing money that they should have done, and then lending to it people who couldn't pay it back. it was a totally unsustainable state of affairs. >> i know i have to let you go, but i'm going to ask you something. you shot to fame after the debate in britain, the kind of american-style political debate. at the end of it, 75% of brits wanted to make you prime minister. and then, of course, it didn't quite happen, because you're part of a party that has structurally a smaller share of the vote.
is it conceivable that one day you'll actually switch parties and join one of the bigger parties so you can be prime minister? >> completely inconceivable. totally and utterly inconceivable. i'm a liberal to my core and i'm immensely, immensely proud to be the deputy prime minister, bringing us to government for the first time in 65 years. and very proud that the liberal democrats as a party took that brave step. because it's not without controversy and certainly not without its immense difficulties and challenges because of the difficult economic situation we're facing. but i'm even prouder of the fact that i'm the leader of a party that has this great heritage, but also has a unique culture of open democracy, open debate, which i think is too often lacking elsewhere phlox. >> what would be your advice to american politicians who are trying to do bipartisanship? >> what i think is -- and i certainly feel this myself,
because we all inhabit a political bubble, we all do, it's a world of television studios and parliamentary debates, of course, you forget in that bubble world that actually most people who are leading lives where they're frankly much more preoccupied about paying the bills, getting their kids to school, getting a job and so on, paying off the mortgage, they don't see the world -- most people don't see the world in these rigid, tribal terms that politicians do. and i think i've always tried in my plx to be on the side of people rather than on the side of partisan politics all the time. and i think once in a while, and that has arisen in britain, because the people, the voters didn't give any single party an absolutely majority. no one won. so we had a choice, do we pitch the country into an election campaign again, or come together to govern in the national interest. and i think people beyond politics, beyond the political community, the political elite,
understand that better than people within the political community and the political elite. because they kind of think, yeah, no one won, so they've done the sensible thing and trying to govern in the national interesting. >> nick clegg, thank you so much for coming on. >> my pleasure. and we will be back. at northern trust, we understand... that while you may come from the same family... you know, son, you should take up something more strenuous. you have different needs and desires. - i'm reading a book. - what's a book? so we tailor plans for individuals, featuring a range of integrated solutions. you at your usual restaurant? son: maybe. see you tomorrow. stairs? elevator. to see how our multi-faceted approach...
now for our "what in the world" segment. what got my attention this week was a claim by iran's president mahmoud ahmadinejad. this one isn't about nuclear weapons or israel or the holocaust. it's about execution. president ahmadinejad claims that there is a death penalty double standard. on the one hand, he says, the western world is coming down on iran because it may put a woman to death by stoning. and on the other hand, nobody protests against the execution this week of a woman in america. okay, so let's do some
comparisons. we'll start at the macro and move to the micro. the united states executed 52 people in 2009. so far this year, 38 executions have taken place. now for those opposed to the death penalty, this is obviously 38 deaths too many. but in iran in 2009, the regime put more than 388 people to death and has already executed 180 to date this year, according to amnesty international. amnesty says that included in last year's grim tally for iran were one execution by stoning, 14 public executions, 77 killed by mass execution, and five people put to death for crimes they committed when they were under the age of 18. in the united states, there were no stonings, no public executions, no mass executions, and nobody executed for crimes committed as a juvenile. amnesty says iran executes
people for political reasons and that they saw a huge spike in executions in the days and weeks after the disputed iranian elections of last june, june of 2009. 112 people were executed, they say, that month alone. the united states, of course, does not execute people for political reasons. so what of these two specific cases? in iran, it is this woman, she was convicted of adultery and is now being accused of complicity in the murder of her husband, a charge she vehemently denies. in the united states, in the state of virginia, it is this woman, teresa lewis, who has been executed by lethal injection. she pleaded guilty to hiring two men to kill her husband and stepson. lewis' supporters say she is mentally impaired, but the supreme court allowed her execution to continue.
so again, whatever your views on the death penalty, you can see that these are different cases. while we're discussing this topic, listen to bernard henry levi, my guest from last week, as he describes stoning. >> the men are buried to the waist in order to have a chance to escape. the women have no chance. buried to the -- a group of men gather around them, and stone them with stones -- not to big, in order that the suffering lasts as much as possible, and not too small, in order to kill. and the target is to transform the face of the woman into a pulp. >> now let's go back to president ahmadinejad's original claim. he says that there was much more coverage worldwide of the sekinah case than the lewis case. and you know what, he's right. a search for last month shows six times as many articles on the stoning case in iran than
the lethal injection case in virginia. but given the differences i've mentioned, i think this is justifiable. and all this coverage might actually be having an effect. on "larry king," president ahmadinejad seemingly changed his tune, now saying that sekinah has not been sentenced to death by stoning and that nothing has been decided. so let's hope that iran makes the right, moral decision on this crucial case. and we will be right back. president peres, if you were to be talking to president gul, as you had hoped, what would you say to him? president gul, if you met with president peres, what would you say to him? that she would take care of her children. but she needed help. i used my american express open card to get half a million points to buy building materials to help build the jackson family a new home. well, i know if my dad was still around, he would have told me, with no doubt... he would have told me it's a no brainer and i knew that from the start.
was added to the complexities of the middle east when israel responded militarily to a flotilla of aid bound for gaza from turkey. nine activists were killed in the raid. now once-warm relations between israel and turkey are almost nonexistent. president peres says a meeting he was to have had this week with the turkish president abdullah gul was abruptly canceled. they wouldn't talk to each other in person, but you'll see them back to back on this show. first up, president shimon peres. president peres, it's an honor to have you on. >> thank you very much. it's a pleasure and honor to meet you again. >> do you believe that the leadership of iran is deterra e deterrable? israel has a very significant nuclear deterrent. why would iran not be deterred by that? everywhere else in the world, this deterrence works.
why does israel think it wouldn't work with iran? >> one reason. who's threatening to destroy iran? do you know anybody? iran is threatening to destroy israel. and who can guarantee us that what they say will not be done? it's not a group that is based on them telling the truth. it's not the leadership that likes peace. they are introducing terror and killing and hitting. it's a shameful organization. now israel says we have nuclear weapons. i know that we are suspected of having it -- >> i assume on this program, you will not confirm that right now? >> no. i think if suspicion can salvage the detrerrendeterrent, it's en.
the foreign minister, we are good friends. we are such good friends. why wouldn't you take me, let me have a look at what's going on. i tell him, you're crazy. i shall take you to dimona, you'll see there's nothing there, they'll fire me. i want you to be suspicious. that's the persurpose. >> but do you think that anything ahmadinejad has said in the last few weeks or this week with at the u.n., has it worried you more? there are many people who have said, this is a very shrewd, calculating regime. they are trying to assert leadership in the arab world. they're appropriating the palestinian issue. this is the game they're playing, and we need to understand that rather than believe that they're mad mullahs. >> i don't believe any word that he says, but i watch everything he does. from hanging homosexuals because
they're homosexuals, for shooting at the crowds of people are protesting with fire. for sending arms to hamas and hezbollah. for financing terror. i mean, the speeches are a cover in that case. and i don't believe, and recommend not to believe a single word to what he does. i do recommend to watch him on the record, what he does, what he's threatening. who is threatening tehran? today the choice for the middle east to remain a middle east of independent country or to fall under the spell of iran. they are very ambitious. >> wouldn't this be -- the fact of the matter is that israel finds itself on the same side of the great strategic divide in the middle east right now, which is, on the issue of the rise of
iran. you are on the same side as saudi arabia, egypt, the gulf states. couldn't this prove to be a strategic partnerships that helps solve the palestinian issue as well? >> it can. it helps. but we admit it clearly, for it's not simple to do so. because again, ahmadinejad is shrewd. >> that's right. >> he doesn't speak about sunnis and shiites, he speaks against israel. so it's very hard for the arabs all of a sudden to stand up and defend israel, in this strange debate. >> but that is why he's appropriating the palestinian issue? >> oh, yeah, sure. he uses it as a ticket. >> yeah. >> it doesn't cost much, speeches. he supports hamas. he covers part of their budget. we have to have a -- to watch an
eye on the sea, because they send missiles. and because some missiles send ships. and he encourages them to terrorize. so what can we do with words? >> let me ask you about the other country that seems to be making a bid for influence in the middle east, which is turkey. turkey has had long relations with israel. you have had military training exercises together. there is now a real rupture in the relationship. you were meant to meet with president gul. is it your understanding that they asked that you apologize for the flotilla incident? >> yes. >> and that is why the meeting was called off? >> yes. and there was a president who took the initiative to arrange the meeting. usually i'm on very good terms with president gul and i respect him. he came to me and said, look, we've got to arrange a meeting.
we thought it would be part of the clinton initiative. i said, gladly. then i was asked, what do you suggest the topic will be? my answer was, the future. i didn't get an answer. all of a sudden i read that they have first apologized and compensation. i was very much surprised, but we didn't change our idea of turkey. we are friends of turkey, we shall seek friendship with turkey. maybe turkey has changed policies. it's their consideration. >> but how do you and turkey -- how does israel and turkey get out of this bind, because they clearly feel wounded and feel that they want an apology. you have said, unequivocally, that you will not apologize. how do you restore relations? >> we don't think that we did anything wrong on the ship.
i mean, we decided to board the ship. there is permission to catch a ship out of the water before it comes in. we checked with legal advisers. and when our soldiers -- there were five sixes -- six ships. five, well, more or less specific. the sixth ship was a provocation in their behavior. now, we said, you want to unload the aid you want to send to the gaza, come in the israeli boat or the egyptian boat and it will be delivered. no, they wanted a provocation. what for? and by the way, if you want really to help to solve the situation in gaza, why didn't you tell the hamas to stop shooting?
why did you close your eyes? >> and what do you think is the answer to that? is turkey seeking also a leadership role in the middle east? and it feels it needs street credibility with the arab street? >> i wouldn't like to make any comment which may open a debate. i'm not in a mood, i don't think a debate will work upon the turkish invitation. we are very friendly. i didn't change my mind. if there is already a change in turkey, or is a change being developed in turkey, it's for the turks to judge. i wouldn't like to make any accusations, any suspicion. i have patience. >> so if you were to be talking to president gul, as you had hoped, what would you say to him? >> i would say, look, we are
friends. we have to continue our friendship. if you want to help in gaza, start with the reason, not with the reaction. tell hamas to stop shooting. tell iran to stop sending missiles. tell ahmadinejad not to threaten to destroy israel or deny the holocaust. if you want to play a role, you have to play a role. but there are two sides to the story. >> do you look forward and do you believe that in two years, we might have a two-state solution and a peace deal? >> i think it's a fair possibility. we really would like to bring an end to the conflict with the palestinians fairly honestly. for me, the end of the conflict is needed, because it's not a
matter of political wisdom, it's a matter of principles. we, the jewish people are not born to govern other people. it stands against everything that we stand for. more me, it's a test. we think the better the palestinians will have it, it will be better for us. they'll be better neighbors. >> president peres, thank you very much. always an honor. >> thank you very much. >> can we ignore this? can we forget what happened in the mediterranean sea? can we forget that turks were killed in the ships? never be fu, it helps to have a financial partner like northern trust. by gaining a keen understanding of your financial needs, we're able to tailor a plan using a full suite... of sophisticated investment strategies and solutions. so whatever's around the corner can be faced with confidence.
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but first, why is abdullah gul so important? he is not just the president of turkey, he is also the cofounder with prime ministera of its dominant political party. some people siegle and ardowan taking the turkey in new directions, with ambitions to be the new power broker of the middle east, and some say they're turning away from turkey's western roots towards an islamic foreign policy. i asked gul about that and a lot more. listen up. >> president gul, this is an honor to have you. >> it's my privilege to be here. >> you come at an interesting moment, but there is a great deal of speculation about turkey. people look at turkey and its recent actions in various ways and they say, is turkey still a loyal friend of the united states and of the west? >> you are right. i've been asked all these
questions here. turkey is part of the alliance, and turkey is a very strong friends of the united states. as a matter of fact, president obama made his first president to turkey and he made an excellent speech in our parliament and we really appreciate it. and look at afghanistan. turkey is the only country that increased the number of troops there. we increased 1,000 more and now we have 2,000. and we're supposed to withdraw 1,000 this year, because we weren't there additionally. we saw that there's no country ready to take over, so we decided to continue. >> one of the things people look at is that the it shall united states has taken, the issue of
iran, you voted against the united states and the u.n. security council. i've been following turkish foreign policy for a long time. turkish foreign policy, turkish ambassador to the u.n. very rarely vote against the u.s., and very rarely on an issue of core security issues to the u.s. why did you vote against the iran sanctions? >> you misunderstood the way for diplomacy. how can you solve this problem? two ways. be fair diplomacy. because if the war happens. >> the other issue has come up is your relations with israel. you are -- you have had relat n relations with israel for a long, you have had military relations with israel. ever since the israeli operation in gaza, relations seem to get
bad. and get worse. and then, of course, you had the flotilla incident, and at this point, there seem to be virtually no contact or communication. how is this situation going to get resolved? >> it is not our choice, you see. we did not prefer this deterioration in relationship, but unfortunately it was a great mistake from the israeli side, because this blockage, embargo on gaza, not only turkey is criticizing this. president obama, madame clinton. all the p minus 5 countries, the union, they all call israel to lift this. can we ignore this? can we forget what happened in the mediterranean sea? can we forget that eight turks and one americans were killed in
this ships? this ships, they were not crime. in fact, helping them, it is a variant of the west, you see. if there's something humanitarian targeted at, so you go there. and these were all ngos, not all of them, the government organization. >> but some israelis say, if you're so concerned about the seizure of gaza, why don't you use your good offices to talk to hamas, and tell them, stop firing rockets at israel. create a condition in which there's peace. and then there won't be a seize. >> very good question. i'll tell you something few peoples knows. how hamas joined the election,
they joined -- they won election. the next day, i was the foreign minister at time, okay, you're responsible, it is different, since you won the election, you will be different. the next day they want to come to talk us. they came. >> the representatives of hamas? >> yes, yes. to ankara. all the representatives, they know, they came. and we talked them and we told them that, look, now your direction should be different from now. you are elected democratically, you should act democratically. terror sending is nonsense, rockets, you stop all this things.
and try to get embrace all the american people, the european people and also tell them that if you have your state, independent state on your left, you are right to leave. so we are very much helpful to israel, and not on previous governments, the current government. many times i went there, many times the prime minister, everyone went there, many times they came us and we were very good -- >> with the netanyahu government? >> until the netanyahu government with. >> until then, so this government -- >> yes, yes, yes. >> because some people look at this and say, turkey is trying to play a new foreign policy that will win the hearts and minds of the arab world, so it is forsaking israel, it is
attacking israel, it is having a more islamic foreign policy. >> no, no. the foreign policy is not good. but if you dare to raise your voice sometimes, then, of course the people, i mean, they like this. but we are not the enemy. but we have right to criticize the policies. >> we'll be back in a moment with more with turkish president gul. we've heard what israeli president peres would have said to gul if they had met this week. what would gul have said to his one-time friend. back with that in a moment. one word turns innovative design into revolutionary performance.
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prominent pastor eddie long appeared before his atlanta area congregation to respond to sexual abuse allegations filed against him last week. four men filed lawsuits claiming long coerced them into sexual relationships while they were in their late teens, then lavished them with expensive gifts. long, without specifically mentioning the lawsuit, says he is, quote, under attack. >> i have never in my life portrayed myself as a perfect man. but i am not the man that's being portrayed on the television. that's not me. that is not me. >> long says he will fight the sex allegations against him. we'll have a full report at the top of the hour, 2:00 eastern time. meantime, the pentagon bought and burned nearly 10,000 copies of the book "operation
dark heart." it's the memoir of an army reserve officer who served in afghanistan. defense officials say the book threatened national security. we'll hear from the author this afternoon at 4:30 eastern time, right here in the newsroom. and they're sandbags as fast as they can along the wisconsin river. it is still rising after days of rain and tomorrow it could reach its highest level since 1973. some families who live near the river have already evacuated. we'll have more news at the top of the hour, 2:00 eastern time. straight ahead, more "fareed zakaria gps". that's logistics ♪ ♪ when the parts for the line ♪ ♪ come precisely on time ♪ that's logistics ♪ ♪ a continuous link, that is always in sync ♪ ♪ that's logistics ♪ ♪ carbon footprint reduced, bottom line gets a boost ♪ ♪ that's logistics ♪
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east but after the incident of four months ago, the relationship is tenuous at best. we heard what the president of israel thinks of the relationship. what does the president of turkey have to say? take a listen. do you think that there is some circumstance in which your relations with israel will get back to normal? you want them to apologize? >> i mean, what international law is saying should be applied here. >> do you want to meet with the president? the president says he had a meeting scheduled with you and you then said your side said that he would have to apologize to you otherwise there could be no meeting. >> no. that is not correct.
we are friends. even when he was not president. he used to come to turkey and to my office. we know each other. this time there was no such appointment you see. >> if you met, what would you say? >> i would approach realistic. not the personal things. think about what happened and think about turkey. is it in your interest or not? >> to have a strong relationship? you would see him with no preconditions? would you be willing to meet president peres without an apology and just a conversation?
i see the family their act and assassinating us as if we acted something wrong with this understanding. the approach and feelings are important first of all. how can i ignore my people who were killed? we have the state tradition. we are therefore 1,000 years tradition that we have. how can i forget all these things? >> president gul, great pleasure and an honor. we will be back. in 2008 i quit venture capital to follow my passion for food. i saw a gap in the market for a fresh culinary brand and launched behindtheburner.com.
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now for our question of the week. do you think the united nations is, a, a force for good in the world, b, a bureaucracy that has a very mixed record, or c, actively detrimental to peace and justice. choose one. now to go along with our u.n. theme this week, our book of the week is called "backstabbing for beginners. my crash course in international diplomacy." the book's author worked at the united nations and this is the u.n.'s version of a hollywood tell-all. it's an insider account for the oil for food scandal. it's great fun to read. and now for the last look. take a look at this photo. the key players in mid east peace walking in the white house. and you will note that presi